so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
When my wife was in full indoctrination mode I asked her the following:
"Jehovah created man correct? Then who created Jehovah?"
She was flumoxed by this question as it had clearly never occurred to her. So I said: "I will give you a clue, they also created Allah, the Hindu Gods, the Ancient Egyptian Gods etc." She continued to look perplexed but also now a bit suspicious. "Do you give up?" I asked. "Mankind!" I answered at which point she looked at me darkly and walked off.
i didn't find this particularly surprising given jw indoctrination is all about how evil the non-believers are (and how deserving they are to be destroyed during the big a) and how the wbts is absolutely right and everyone else is absolutely wrong - so it is not a big jump to islamic fanaticism.
i have a close friend who has jw family in south america.
recently some criminals ran through their town.
the locals routinely practice "mayan justice" where the criminals are beaten or burned to death, depending on the crime.. the authorities try to stop it, but they are not always successful.
I thought the mayans were from Central not South America (Mexico, Guatelmala, Honduras etc.)
i've tried taking the slow, patient approach with my wife.
i believe i first posted here about 13 months ago about my wife.. we've always had good communication and could talk endlessly about philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and then when i learned the ttatt, i clammed up a bit about spiritual things.
i'd always been fairly liberal, suggesting other alternative ideas, but then i told my wife about the un/ngo scandal (i ran across the guardian story doing a talk as an ms, lol!
Hi Erbie - please start a thread to tell us your story. It sounds like you have been through a tough time.
i've tried taking the slow, patient approach with my wife.
i believe i first posted here about 13 months ago about my wife.. we've always had good communication and could talk endlessly about philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and then when i learned the ttatt, i clammed up a bit about spiritual things.
i'd always been fairly liberal, suggesting other alternative ideas, but then i told my wife about the un/ngo scandal (i ran across the guardian story doing a talk as an ms, lol!
This sounds pretty tough Fliping El. Have you read Captives of a Concept? That explains the layers of defence against reality Witnesses build up - essentially there are two: the self-imposed; and the WBTS-imposed; and both are very hard to break through. I think finding a way to address the 'where can we go?' question may be a good start. Get her to understand that there are options and life beyond the organisation. The other thing to do is concentrate on the constant feelings of inadequacy that Witnesses have. She probably feels you are the cause of those feelings for her - your lack of 'spirituality' according to her definition is making her feel bad about herself. The trick is to get her to understand that it is the organisation that is making her feel inadequate because nothing she does will ever be enough. Get her to understand that that is the way they want her to feel because that is the way they motivate Witnesses to work harder in the Minsitry. Also when you observe bad behaviour at the KH - particularly directed at her and you, talk to her about it so she can start to see that the community is not the paradise of 'Christian Love' they make themselves out to be - that they are in fact a bunch of petty-minded judgemental hypocrites. If you have any worldly acquaintances - expose her to them so she can see they are not the corrupt evil greedy people that the organisation portrays them as. It is through her experiences you can best trigger thought-changing cognitive dissonance. Abstract debates about doctrine are less effective. Good luck, Fraz
Gary - yes we are the only ones to do this so far but there are more UBMs here - nonjwspouse and neverajw for two. We UBMs are indeed a small minotiry on JWN. So please other UBMs complete the template.
It is interesting that while there are some parallels in our experiences, there are also significant differences. This probably reflects our different upbringings and attitudes to religion and perhaps also the dynamic in the relationship.
I hope your approach in relation to your kids works - I was not prepared to take the risk of a compromise approach.
Cheers Fraz
i found this article interesting & just wanted to share.
after going through my teenage years trying to be the perfect jw, i realized that trying to live up to the standards imposed on me have been for worse & not for better.
i was feeling miserable, repressed, unfulfilled, with a great lack of self confidence & self esteem.
The patriatchy that runs the organisation absolutely wants to control female sexuality. Not only the preoccupation with virginity but also the prohibition on masturbation (that does much more harm long term to the sisters than the brothers). My sister-in-law committed suicide rather than return to her newly married husband because I think - reading between the lines - she had an experience similar to that described in the OP on her wedding night and then ran away and then the elders, bless them, told her if she did not return to her husband she would be disfellowshipped. And I fear my wife will never experience the big O because she refuses to contemplate masturbation and during love making (including oral) when she seems to be getting close you can almost feel her stop herself. Oh the damage this cult has wrought!
everyone has an opinion on things.
oftentimes, we ask for help or want the view of the board in a matter.
but just remember, the comments are simply personal views.
It is that old saying: "Opinions are like @ssholes - everyone has one."
"it's the intent that counts not the result.".
i have been out of the jw organization for some 22 years now and i sometimes get a reminding jolt out the hoops that some will jump through to make their religion make sense to them.
the first line in this post is what a jw on the street here in salinas told me on saturday when trying to justify the society's history of false prophecies.
This would make a good description of US Foreign Policy
this online community is truly addicting.
i'm at this point super busy with my career, family and jw stuff (yes, in that order), and yet still i keep coming back, posting stuff.... wasting time really with my silly little positives in an swarming angry ocean of negatives here.. i'll be lurking from time to time, but definitely it's time to focus on what's really important and productive in my life.. may all of us find our correct paths and be happy in the end.. vayan con dios!!!.
gc.
GC - maybe if you hung around your inverted reality may correct itself such that you no longer see lies as The Truth and supporting the views of an abusive and manipulative organisation as positive and opposition to the same as negative. But maybe it is the risk that that might happen that is driving you away. Good luck Frazzled
